Musk's Monkey Madness, Artful Absconding, & NYs Drug Dilemma

Dive into the ethical maze of Elon Musk's Neuralink Monkeys, New York's Drug Problem, and a Danish artist's audacious act—all in this week's TLS episode. 

In this episode, we dissect the controversies surrounding Neuralink's treatment of monkeys. Is it groundbreaking science or just plain cruel? We also delve into a heart-wrenching day-care tragedy in the Bronx and discuss the drug crisis affecting even the youngest among us. Lastly, we debate a Danish artist's bold move that's got the art world buzzing. Don't miss out on this rollercoaster of debates!

Transcript

S4E36

[00:00:00] 

Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. The show is about to begin.

Truth, lies, shenanigans, truth, lies, shenanigans,. Tune in to TLS. Yeah, tune in to TLS. It's the TLS show. Coming to you live from the TLS show. What's up, welcome to the truth, lies, shenanigans, podcast, social commentary, hot topics, amazing guests with a ton of fun and shenanigans along the way.

This week's show, we've got all hot topics. First up, we're diving into Elon Musk and Neuralink's monkey business. Is it groundbreaking science or just plain cruel? [00:01:00] And Gianni's got us talking about a tragic daycare death in the Bronx. What's really going on with the drug epidemic. And last but not least, Rob's asking the big question, is it art or is it theft?

A Danish artist is pushing the boundaries and we're here to debate it. If you're stopping in for the first time, record live. Every Wednesday, 8 p. m. Eastern time, YouTube, Facebook, Twitch TV, TruthLiveShenanigans. com. And we do the show live because we want your questions and comments to help drive the conversation.

So get to YouTube, Facebook, at TLS Live Show and start typing in your comments and questions. If you're listening to the official podcast, make sure you download new episodes every Friday. But... We only have one more episode left until our season end. So make sure you don't miss an episode. Let me introduce you to my co hosts.

First up today, we have the nature lover, the [00:02:00] gamer, the rock star from Fallen Machine coming to you from Ontario, Canada, Robby, man, we're going to have to get you like one of those ring announcement gigs. So, we just keep getting better at this, right?

Oh, happy Wednesday, my friends. It's it's good to be back for another round of rousing discussion. And, uh, yes, I was reacquainted with the fact that I'm like early to bed early to rise kind of guy still working with the group of filmmakers for the glimpses of grim or anthology project.

And we had a movie you're working on Friday. Yeah, that's it's an anthology of micro horrors. Yeah, micro horror films. we did an outdoor shoot where we needed everything to be very dark. Uh, so we were on, on site for seven and started shooting it around maybe 8, 39 o'clock at night.

And I didn't get home till about 2 a. m. and the rest of the weekend was like zombie for me. But it[00:03:00] 

didn't stop us from celebrating. Speaking of getting older, I was just saying, it did not stop me from helping celebrate my wife's birthday over the weekend with me. So, yeah.

Happy birthday, Joe. Happy birthday, Josie. Yeah, it was nice, got together with family and it was wonderful, wonderful little gatherings of just loved ones. Yeah. We love that. Yeah, Josie. I won't ask how old she is, cause you know, I always ask. No, don't ask women that. Just know they had a wholesome time. You know, it's funny, it's funny whenever we sing happy birthday, I'm always the one who makes sure we go, Oh, that's me.

And Johnny, I mean, come on man. It's a, it's a badge of honor. It really is. It is. It's one more year aboard Starship Earth. And when people lie about their age, I love ripping on them for that. Oh, I'm 39. Really? You look like a hell for 39. You look amazing for 45, 

Shut [00:04:00] up. Not, oh, I'm that guy. Rob. Rob is that guy. I'm, I believe it.

All right, next up, our young, vibrant model business owner streaming from Atlanta, Georgia, Gianni storm. Hey guys, I've missed you. So, um, this week is interesting. Actually. I've rescued two kittens that I'm very proud. I'm very proud to rescue them. So like they're like in your possession, rescued. I've okay.

No. Um, I helped get them rescued. Okay. Yeah, that sounds about right. You helped home them. Okay. That's awesome. No, again,

I got them brought to, um, a rescue because long story short, there was a neighbor. Who I think was dying in their home, actually. And a wellness check came to check on them and found that he was in his home. Took him to the hospital. He's been gone for like two weeks. But there were two [00:05:00] baby kittens in his home the whole time.

Yeah. Just... Trying to claw out of the window, um, because they were starving and probably thirsty. So Johnny, that's awesome. You helped find a home for them just by getting in with animal rescue. That's amazing. Yeah, I did.Oh yeah.

 that's what I wanted to tell you guys. Is it me or when you're doing the right thing, people are like mad about it or mean about it because people were like, Oh, let it go. you're going to cause problems within the neighborhood. Even the property manager was so mad and like, yeah, we're going to handle it.

Just don't worry about it. And I'm like, but they're literally crawling out the window. One fell and disappeared. Like, you know, they needed help. So be nice to people that are trying to do the right thing. Yeah. I was just trying to help them and ended up they got help. So. Good thing happened. You

 I think you did a good job. Thank you. I think so. You did good. We saved some lives. All right. And I am your host, Leo Nicks. So, I have a question.

Have either of you guys watched the show [00:06:00] Foundation on Apple TV? Never. No. Yeah. I don't know. I just, I get caught up in sci fi. So it's got me hooked. It's in season two right now, but it's all about the collapse of this like galactic empire and. This mathematician has figured out how to shorten the Dark Age after.

Okay. The collapse of the empire, because it's inevitable, right? The fall of the empire, but they want to make sure they shorten it as much as possible. And so he's figured out how to do that. And so it's all this science and science fiction and all that. it's based on some books by Isaac Asimov.

Okay. Interesting. I don't read books very often. My wife gets on me all the time because I'm not a book reader, but I did read. Isaac Asimov, a few, a few of his books. So, you like fiction? It's like, uh, you're more of a fiction fan. Yeah, I would definitely, there's no question.

Yeah, but that's where we get the laws of robotics from, and that absolutely flexes into the realm of AI. There's some, what was very forward thinking [00:07:00] in his writing. Oh. His name's Isaac? Okay, Isaac. Yeah, Isaac Asimov, Isaac Asimov, Piers Anthony,

 Orson Scott Card. Really good. No. Yeah. Nice. But those were the type of books. I didn't read many books, but those I read. Those were the books you read. I didn't even, I was real bad. I didn't even read the, uh, required reading in school. I don't even know how I got by sometimes.

How did you get by? Because it's impossible. You make it so easy to rip on you. You make it so easy to rip on you. I don't know. Some class I bullshitted my way through. I don't know how I did it. Cheating. I don't know if I call it cheating. I was cheating friends ring, ring. Who's that calling? It's the call of the wild.

No, that's not the report. That's not it. I think I did mess up a few of them, anyway. All right, let's get into some hot topics. Let's start off with you. Gianni you want to talk about drugs? [00:08:00] Yes. Yes. This is a heavier topic. So this happened in Bronx, New York, a one year old boy, his name's Nicholas Domenici.

he passed away and three other children were hospitalized after opioid exposure. This happened at a daycare center. So some days after that, the police discovered a trap door under the play area of the children that was concealing fentanyl and other drugs. The owner of the daycare center and her tenant were charged with murder 

They are Facing federal charges and new york is actually one of the few states that have drug consumption sites to try and limit the street action So the area this young boy died in the bronx on that same street has a drug consumption site There, and people say that the area is riddled with needles users are laid out on the ground and seeing graphic things is not uncommon.

But my question to you guys is to supervise drug consumption sites in New York City. Make the city safer or [00:09:00] contribute to this dire drug issue. Now, I want to hear from Robby 1st, simply because I know this was a topic that he had brought to us before. I'm curious what you think. Well, I mean, safe consumption sites and this tragedy at the daycare are 2.

Completely unrelated things. Um, does have a completely unrelated. Yeah, they are because, well, I guess. Yeah. I mean, what it doesn't. It provides an avenue for people to bring their drugs to the safe injection site where they can be tested. They can test them for purity for fentanyl.

So, you know, drug addicts and like a drug. have drug zone, not a drug free zone, but a drug zone drug zone. Yeah, safe zone. Well, I mean, it's a, it's a safe injection zone and it gives them the ability to test their stuff. So, yeah, I mean, it's multifaceted.

It's not just going to be the injection site alone. That's going to make things [00:10:00] safer. So. Has it contributed to what's happening in the neighborhood? Very possibly, has it made it attractive for people to distribute their product in that general vicinity? Well, there's obviously a market that's coming through there and accessibility, I mean, location, location, location, if you're in sales, right?

Um, I mean, where do you go? If you want to score drugs, you go to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. It's as simple as that. There's always going to be somebody that's prey on it. It's really fortunately. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's absolutely an axiom in those circles. a lot of people stay away from any for that reason, because there are moles planted looking to.

Sell you something to lure you back to see if you're going to have that moment of weakness because they recognize that these are people who are struggling. But it, I guess it really doesn't make sense. Drugs are there, but it's awful that it was. In a daycare center, and I hope that these people get.

Everything that's coming to them because. That's just it [00:11:00] makes no sense to endanger these young children. We've seen what a fentanyl exposure can do to that police officer on the back of the vehicle. Right. Didn't even come into contact with it. He just got a blast of it when they opened the back of the vehicle and darn near killed him.

So, of course, a child, that's 3 or less, it's not going to take a whole lot to put him in that state. So it's just, it says a lot about our society that the daycare operator, the boyfriend would say, yeah, hey, let's stash it here. No, one's going to look for it at a daycare.

 my heart goes out to the family that lost the child and my heart goes out to all the families whose children were affected by this because there were a handful of them for sure. This is just. It's gross, it's disgusting. I hope that they throw these people into a deep, deep hole and we never hear or see from them again.

 So, let me get back to the original question. Johnny. And I see Jacqueline Robinson's online. She says. Uh, didn't they try this in the wire with hamster dam? Uh, [00:12:00] what happens to the quality of life for residents in those communities? Um, yeah, these safe injection zones. I don't know if I'm a fan of them.

I mean, I don't know if it's a solution to the problem. The problem being drugs and addiction, you know, of course, I don't want police leasing drugs. In addition, the same time, we've got to find a solution that works, these safe injection zones. It's just like a. a band aid to a bigger problem, criminalizing drugs that didn't work.

We tried that in the eighties, so you just say no drugs. And then of course locking up all the black people, you know? Yeah. And it was just a bunch of senseless, not even crimes really. And they were in, in jail incarcerated. So they're trying to do it a different way. Yeah. I mean, you know what I mean?

Like people were put in jail just for marijuana possession. And it was crazy. Absolutely. I know criminalizing and it's not necessarily a solution. These safe injection zones don't seem to be a good solution. You know, if we have children. Or [00:13:00] neighborhoods with children being affected by them, um, or bringing in that element of people, then it's not a good thing.

You know, we can't, we can't say that that's working either. so then what's the solution? I mean, do any of us here have a solution to that? I think just like many of the big. Like, kind of issues it takes multiple parties, multiple solutions. it's complicated, but I think that the direction that people can kind of go towards curbing.

This huge drug issue in New York is 1, how New York is set up It's set up to like Manhattan and there's boroughs. I know that you can choose where you want to live and stuff like that.

But it's hard to get out of a city like that. It's hard to get out of inner cities. It's hard, but I think that one, it is a political thing. I'm not saying like this big conspiracy, like. Drug lords are working with the government, but I think that there's a political reason as to why they're keeping those people in that situation.

Now, daycare should never been there and I'm wondering why they should be near [00:14:00] consumption sites. Yeah, at all. I don't, I'm not even on the same street block or city. But I, I understand why they have the consumption sites in those areas, because that's where the drug users are. So, it makes sense, but there has to be, there just has to be a better place to be clear on 1 thing.

So, is it a safe 

injection site or is it a safe consumption site? Because I think those are 2 different things, right? It is Oh, yeah, because, you know, some people inject and some people do drugs other ways. I think from what I understand, they're providing needles and all that stuff and they can just go there and do their drugs and then and do it legally.

Well, without being. I mean, a lot overdosing and they can be watched. Yes, well, that's it they have access to clean needles. They have access to counselors, they have access to testing kits. and if they do have an episode and overdose, they have access to medical teams on site, rather than having to redistribute.

Your medical teams, your paramedics and ambulances on the fly in the community and [00:15:00] expose them to the fentanyl risks. So. There are definitely some benefits that go along with the safe injection sites, but as we're discussing here, there's definitely some negative elements that come around that and how.

You fix that. I'm really not sure. I don't have those solutions. I am not. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's it. I don't write health policy. I don't do health and drug research. So I don't have. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of those opium rooms where in the old days, the opium dens, the opium dens where they just lay back and they'd be smoking opium and they, and it was all legal.

Well, somewhat legal. What? Yeah. So it kind of reminds me of, that's what I'm thinking about when I, when I visualize what goes on in there, yeah, I'm sure I mean, there was a time when manufacturers could put a little pep in your soft drink.

That's crazy. It is funny how we've come a long way from drugs like cocaine and these opiates being something that were like. Commonly used and not obviously criminalized and now they're being criminalized. [00:16:00] And they're being. Like the people that use them are strung out and their lives are completely ruined.

I mean, fentanyl is crazy. I don't, I'm not really clear on why fentanyl is being, I know it's highly addictive and so they're incorporating it in there. No, nobody's asking for fentanyl. So this is an additive in the drug supply because it is. more addictive. It gives them a bigger rush.

Unfortunately, it kills off people. But I suppose when you're looking at it for a fix, you're not necessarily looking for quality control. You're looking for whatever's available. So, it's, really harmful. a shame. And at the end of the day, the manufacturers don't care if they're going to kill an addict.

They really don't care because they know that they're going to be able to fill those shoes. They know that there's going to be another person who's ready to purchase that product behind them. I think 1 of the chief of police was saying that as for arresting low level street dealers.

They're basically asking to build bigger cases and I think [00:17:00] that's. Kind of be as to, like, don't get me wrong. I think that we're past the days of, oh, I have to sell drugs to feed my family. I don't know. 

Lemme ask you, do you think it would be better if we legalized drugs altogether and then, you know, maybe had the f d A regulate them Because that way all drugs, you could be testing drugs regularly. Right. Make sure they don't have the additives like fentanyl and stuff like that.

Because they do the same thing for cigarettes, right? Um, eventually, I'll get to the same thing with marijuana where they're regulating it and testing it and making sure it's the proper quality. And then if you start doing that, then you can start. arresting these dealers that are doing the illegal drugs.

And that way, you illuminate the illegal drugs because. You can get legal drugs. What do you think? Yeah, I think that that what does that benefit? The government, because they're going to get rich off of it. I don't know benefits the consumer. Because if they choose to ingest these products, and now they are government tested and approved.

[00:18:00] Then, fantastic. You know that you're getting a quality product as opposed to getting a street product. I know that when I petitioned for, to my doctor for my medicinal carrying card prior to the legalization of marijuana in Canada, I advocated for myself and one of those advocacies was that I had zero quality control over what I was purchasing during my time of replenishment.

So I could be getting skunk weed from behind somebody's house. I could be getting high test weed from BC. I could be getting something that's laced with speed or cocaine. I don't know. So yeah, when you start to realize something that's government regulated that has quality control, I can go to dispensary and I can purchase with confidence a product that I know has been tested and approved.

And I agree with Neal that eventually this is going to go out to other narcotics [00:19:00] because. The way we've been going about isn't working. So then what you do is you protect people from themselves. Yeah, and that's really what I was thinking. I was like. You know, it's the same thing with alcohol, they tried to, you know, cause alcohol is not necessarily good for you.

Right. It's, it's not, it's not good. It's a known person. Dude, it's a known addict. Definitely not. Right. And so when they tried to regulate it, people want to do it anyway, because it's addictive. Right. And so it makes them feel good and all those great things. So trying to battle that is a losing battle.

And we've seen it time and time again, war on drugs, losing battle, loss. You know, all of those battles against addictive chemicals and drugs is a losing battle. So, as Rod B was saying, you know, people are going to do it. At least we solve a problem, meaning we can, we can kind of eliminate impurities like fentanyl, where they're killing themselves and killing other people like children, right?

And so we can kind of control some of that, at least. Because right now, there's no controls on these [00:20:00] illegal drugs, no controls, but if we put controls in on legal drugs, then it's something to consider something to at least. But the thing is, like, there, I've noticed with fentanyl, besides, like, the people finding it. and dying from it, 

there are a lot of, like, young teenagers that are dying and I'm like, what drug are they taking that they're getting laced with them? And yeah, but anything that's power, anything power. Yeah. If, if they're crushing Xanax it, like anything, because they're buying it from. A disreputable source and a drug manufacturer to crush a pill to press it and stamp it with the Xanax label.

No problem. It's done. That's sick. That's so sick. So, let's see, um, Jacqueline Robinson says, this is why I can't take all the political shrieking about fentanyl allegedly coming across the border. The real issue is supply and wait for it, demand, but they won't talk about that.

Uh, Mike Winner says, if you would read, sir, you would know that this is what Oregon has tried [00:21:00] to do. Oh, what you just suggested legalizing, regulate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know Oregon. I didn't even know they were having issues. So the question is, are they successful? Are they being successful with it? I don't, that I had that I'm not aware of.

That's true. That's something that we could look into. I mean, it's a, this is a community thing too, though, because why are people on drugs? Like, I know that's a dumb question to ask, but it's like, it's a deeper rooted thing. It's a deeper rooted thing besides like, Oh, all of these legal bans. Maybe there's a systemic thing where, yeah, we.

Somehow get them off of drugs and then they do some kind of like healing thing. I don't know I'm just trying to come up with that would work That definitely hasn't worked I mean, but Do drugs if only there was just one reason Johnny if only there was just one reason why people know drugs. I know You know, I just think we need reform.

Trauma is the main reason. Education, accessible treatment. We gotta get people when they're young. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Is this truth? Lies. Truth. Shenanigans. Nice [00:22:00] shenanigans. This is sad, but it is true. Truth. Some sad truth, man. Humanity is mm-hmm. what it is. Yes. You guys see it? Yes, it's, yes it is.

I'll do something about it. And I notice, uh, Mike Winter repeated, you should read up on that. Like, you should probably do that and read, read. I think he's making reference to our earlier comment about reading.

 All right. we've got to take a quick minute to remind our audience to check out our network of podcasts. pods network. It's not your average run of the mill podcast network. It's the go to spot for podcasts on the rise. And for those of you looking to switch up your listening game, don't miss out on podcasts like wrestling with heart 

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You won't regret it. I promise. Alright. Let's get into our next podcast. Truth Lies Shenanigans. All right. And some of you may remember that viral video of a monkey playing Pong with its mind. Yeah, that was Neuralink, a company owned by Elon Musk, who of course is the one who bought Twitter and turned it into X.

Well the video shows the monkey named Pager, he's shown using a chip implanted in his brain to control the game of Pong. Which was amazing. I mean, I was absolutely amazed when I saw it. I was like, oh, this is awesome. I mean, we're going to be able to have brain implants and Elon Musk himself claimed that 

they were testing internally ill monkeys, but Neuralink has been under fire from not just 1, but [00:24:00] multiple sources 1st off. Medical Ethics Group says that 15 out of 17 of the monkeys implanted with the Neuralink chips died from complications from the chips. Oh my god. Now these monkeys just didn't pass away.

They suffered from bloody diarrhea, severe brain swelling, paralysis. And some were basically scratching their brains out and that's it. And even Neuralink staff themselves have raised concerns about rush testing procedures causing unnecessary suffering. And reports are approximately 1500 animals, including monkeys, pigs and sheep that have died since 2018.

So, initially, when people were excited about the prospect saying that, you know, wireless brain signals are an innovative step, the question is at what cost? Animal welfare groups are calling the experiments grotesque and driven by nothing more than curiosity. Elon Musk's curiosity. I want you all to chime in.

Um, do the monkeys just have to pay the price for our technological advancements? [00:25:00] Or is it time to say enough is enough? Save the monkeys ? ! Let's start with Johnny. What do you think? You want to save the monkeys Uh, first of all, always save the monkeys. Always, always say, always. Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah. Let me give you my point of view. I think because, and you know, monkeys, rats, birds, everything has been tested for years. We all know that we've learned that in school, they've been testing on them forever. And I've always thought it was sick. I understand that we. Don't know of an alternative or testing besides volunteers, like human volunteers.

But we're in 2023, there's not like a makeshift or make believe or a dummy type of like clone body that you guys can do this on. Like, does it have to be living animals that are not terminally ill? It was found out that he's lying. They're not terminally ill. They're actually fabricated. Evil like these poor animals but no, I think that we should find an alternative.

I think that we can, there's human [00:26:00] testing before like animal testing. That's what you think. Go ahead. Straight to human test. Not children, not children like consented adults. Yeah. Just straight to them. What about mice? Absolutely. What about rats? No, sorry. No testing on any animal. Leave the creatures alone.

Yeah, leave the creatures alone. I think because we don't have a say. We didn't create them. You know how many products you're using right now that have been tested on all of those animals? I try to make sure it says cruelty free. I swear. Okay. No, no, no. I try to make sure it says animal cruelty free. And I know that we, I eat me.

I know, I know, I know, but I still, I still think it's wrong. I mean, I don't care. I think that they should be. Before you say something, What Mew is alluding to here. Robby, hold on, hold on. So, Mike Winter makes a good point here. He says, There is no dichotomy there. This is what they did on black people as well.

Testing on lesser beings is not okay. I mean, he's making your point, but with that being said, the inevitability of it, the inevitability of it [00:27:00] is that they're still going to test on lesser people and it's going to be what they consider lesser at the time. I'm sorry, Robby. Go ahead. Yeah, no, like, what Neil was alluding to as far as products that you get to enjoy because of the animal experimentation, Johnny, I just just to give you a few.

Okay. Your basic vaccines. Antibiotics, insulin, how many diabetics do you know, Johnny, that would be dead if we hadn't had this animal experimentation, organ transplants, cancer treatments, HIV, AIDS medications, anesthesia, cochlear implants, treatments for hemophilia, the list goes on and on and on.

So that's the ultimate goal. Yeah. But Johnny, it's, I get it. I understand what, where you're coming from. That's really sad though. But when you said experimenting on clones, you know, well, yeah, that brings about the ethics. Whoa. That brings about the ethics of cloning. Wait, wait, you would rather hold on.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Wait a [00:28:00] minute. Somehow I missed the mention of clones. She said clones. I missed. She said that she would be okay with experimenting on, on human clones. Okay. So you understand. So, so, so you understand that we're creating humans to then test So basically you're creating babies and children and they grow up or whatever, and then they're tested on or whatever, but you won't test on rats and mice.

No, you're okay with arming humans and then testing on them. I don't listen, I don't think it's okay. I said, as an alternative, if we're okay, so we're picking the lesser of the evils. So, you think farming humans is the lesser of killing rats? Whoa. Do you eat meat? Absolutely the lesser. No, because farming animals.

Sorry, go ahead. I just want to yes. Yes. Yes. I cannot even hear you right now. That's why I said it's some bias, but at the same time, I mean, it's some contradiction, but at the same time, I don't think it's right to kill animals or experiment on them. A bird, a hummingbird, a caterpillar, [00:29:00] leave them alone. I think that if you're farming animals.

But to put it in context, Johnny, so Dolly the sheep, who was a very popular icon because it was the first successfully cloned sheep, was a success after 277 failed attempts. And Dolly's health deteriorated greatly over seven years and needed to be euthanized. So, yeah, you would put humans through that.

Yeah. So animal experimentation has always played a significant role throughout history in advancing human medical science and it's contributed to many, many important discoveries and treatments. But the question of whether it's required to advance medical science is, it's an ongoing debate, Johnny. It is an ongoing debate with deep ethical implications that are a matter of concern for a lot of people.

It really is a big deal. I totally get it, Johnny. But as far as whether or not Elon Musk is operating in an ethical [00:30:00] fashion, I mean, let's be completely honest. This guy is like Hank Scorpio brought to life. He's got a satellite network. Oh, when Homer Simpson goes to work for, um. A nuclear power plant and it's the Hank Scorpio is basically like a real life self made supervillain type thing, but, you know, he's got his satellite network.

He's got rocket propulsion systems with landing capability. He's got a fleet of 160, 000 self driving cars already out in the network and now he's developing neural implant technology that's controlled wirelessly. Satellite network, neurological implants, self driving cars. Like. I really don't know that ethics is his main focus and it's not, I would not want to be a whistleblower because I would be a quick way to become a human volunteer, Johnny.

And no, there are, is a plan to go to human trials next. With paraplegia, so, yeah, oh, my. See, I [00:31:00] can't, but it's just getting weird, but there is a value to it, though. You have to understand that Johnny, it's going to the paraplegic community after the animal testing. So it's going to kill fewer paraplegics because it killed a bunch of monkeys.

I think I'm just more, and it's crazy because I'm younger than you guys, but I feel like I'm just so shocked at How quickly technology is like literally taking over every aspect of our lives, what we know our world and Yeah, we're talking about the animals but even like how you're saying with paraplegics like we've seen movies where the paraplegics just have like a Automated arm like it's just crazy how fast it's happening.

This this whole techno would happen without rats and monkeys and Testing on them. They're gonna find a different way. I just want to point out a conversation that's happening online So Mike winner says kill all the rats, test on ALF, ALF being Trump. And, uh, my, Jacqueline Robbins says, Mike Winner, can you imagine the lack of brain matter?

[00:32:00] Trying to test brain neural links on Trump. So, I'm not happy about the tests because part of the problem is, is Musk and Musk does whatever the hell he wants to do. However, the hell he wants to do when he wants to do it. And that's a problem for me, because there's a lack of oversight.

There's nobody watching what he's doing. There's no regulations that he's following. He's not held accountable so he can treat these animals as horrible as he wants to no problem. Now, should animal testing go away? Hell no. Yeah, and as long as we're eating animals, you know, I don't mind if we test on the animals and then eat them, you know, so if they're going to die anyway.

Right? I mean, test on all the pigs you want because you make bacon later. Right? So you're crazy and then all of their blood and intestines are all messed up. No, I'll pass. I'm just saying, I'm just saying we're killing. We're killing more animals for food than we're killing or [00:33:00] these technological advancements.

Johnny, you're eating genetically modified animals. When you're eating meat, you already are eating genetically modified animals. Remind wow. Be honest yourself. It's true. No, it's true. But I, I will say this, I have, as an adult, made a conscious choice to stop eating as much meat. It's just hard because I feel like I never was taught an alternative.

So I'm trying to figure that out. But I really like, it's so embedded in me that I feel like I really. You don't want to stop eating meat or animal products. I'm being serious. This is disgusting. I mean, it's sad. It's really sad, but everybody has, you're, you're an omnivore. Eating meat products is not sad.

It's not something that's foreign to you. It's what you're hardwired to do. You're an omnivore. Like when I said Johnny and eating them chitlins. No, I'll pass on the, I'll pass on the, I don't care how crispy, I know I'm all about it, they can, they smell weird, you know, I don't want them treating these monkeys as horrible as they have been, but at the same time.

Um, You know, imagine [00:34:00] scratching your skull, help a lot of people in the long run, if they're able to be successful with these neuro link, um, things as well, I'll be able to play video games.

I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm just joking, but it will help people who are disabled and be able to help because can you imagine if someone's able to move things around with their mind? I mean, like. Like you said, you know, being a cursor on a computer screen so that you can communicate.

So be able to control it with your mind so that you can navigate elements of your life to have that independence. You can do your online shopping on your own. You can order services that you need on your own, that level of independence. It comes at a cost. Unfortunately it does. So hundreds of baby monkeys have rather the monkey monkeys pay the cost.

Yes. Monkeys gonna, so hundreds of has to scratch their skull out to get you to write without hands. Okay. I will say, Johnny, to your point about clones, [00:35:00] that's exactly what they're doing is farming monkeys. 

So they would be farming humans, but they're farming monkeys. These. Monkeys would not have otherwise existed if not for, um, breeding them for these purposes. It's the same, it's the same process, just different species. Okay. Okay. So, cloning is not the way to go. No, it's not. No. It wasn't. You guys just picked on me about that one.

It's not. I just, it's not. I know. You're just like, you're like, just not the monkeys. I get you. It's not the monkeys. All right. Is this true? Lies. Shenanigans. Um, this is because this is truth, right? Because I want it to happen, but it's shenanigans because it's Elon. Elon is just, I can't I can't buy into a lot of stuff.

Elon is doing. I mean, there was a time when I appreciated Elon and all the stuff he was doing for advancements and then. When you start to understand his, um. Reasons behind why he's doing what he's doing. It's really narcissistic. So self aggrandizing. Yeah. Um, Mike winner says, remember the [00:36:00] hypocrisy of Nancy Reagan, hating stem cell.

Testing until Ronnie needed it to cure Alzheimer's. Oh, he also threw in. Oh, wait, you probably don't because. You don't read,

you've got you. Hey, Mike, when I thought you missed that absolutely politics and hypocrisy and how they change their stances on things when Jamie's daughter came out as that and change him. Overnight, it's like, love is love. Oh, yeah. We love gay people now. These politicians need that kind of diversity in their life that challenges their worldviews that they can become more empathetic creatures.

So, what do they need to start changing on guns? Uh, dude, I don't want to wish that kind of evil on them, but I mean, you know, if you're the victim of a gun tragedy, but let's get into our, let's get into our next hot topic. Robbie, you're talking about art that may not exactly be art. [00:37:00] Uh, art is subjective.

the Cunston Museum of Modern Art in Denmark asked artist Jens Hanning to recreate two of his earlier pieces from the 2010s called An Average Danish Annual Income and An Austrian Annual Income. In those original works, they were featured because the frames were full of the Danish krona and euro bills representing the yearly wages of Danish and Austrian workers.

So for the recreation of these pieces that he was commissioned to do, the museum gave him $84,000 in Danish kronner. And when the artworks arrived at the museum, they were surprised to find two blank canvases with no money on them collectively titled Take the Money and Run . So when they asked for refunds to just to fulfill the contract, the artist's response was, this is only a piece of art.

And I don't return the money. So my friends, is this [00:38:00] art or is this theft? So is this art? I think it's both.

And I say that it was a crime. Well, I say that because I think his intention was to take the money, but he found a very artistic and creative way to do it. Right? I mean, I mean, so this guy, what is his Hanning is his name? Honning? know he was apparently known for challenging norms, right?

And so this is what they paid him to do, challenge the norms. And if taking their money and stealing their money and then calling it art is not normal, then okay. Whatever. On top of that, from what I understand, the museum actually displayed it, the two canvases as art. So obviously it's art. They just weren't happy with, what they got out of it, maybe they were expecting something more and I get it.

They had, they were expecting the bills that they gave him to make, to create the art, to be in the frames, but he used them. He literally used, I mean, [00:39:00] I thought that this was hilarious. I feel like it was very funny. actually, I thought it was the opposite of what Neo said, how he thought it was like a crime.

 I think it was artistic on purpose. Cause you know, artists are known to like push boundaries and kind of like mingle their own expression with whatever cultural issues are going on at the time. Like, okay, he took the money. That's how we're all feeling, right? Like I'm gonna take the money. Like, that's how you feel.

So I understand his expression, or I understand in my own way, his. Is take on the art. I don't think it was a crime. They shouldn't have given that money. I don't think. I don't think it was a crime for him to take it. When you, when you give it, but Johnny, the art, the bills were the materials for the job.

So, if you commissioned someone to build you a house and you provided them with the materials and you showed up and there was only a foundation poured for your home. But they titled it cheeky, they called it that take the money and run a state.[00:40:00] Would you feel like you got ripped off? You weren't commissioning the building of a house.

But you provided the materials for something to be created and they took those materials and in this instance it was money. But that's what art is about. Art is about, you know, an individual's. He's an artist. Yeah, an individual's sense of what is creative. Create something with this stack of money. And he did.

Yeah. It was. Nothing disappeared, as I say, I think it's both because I think his intent was to just take the money and use the money for himself because he may have needed the money, but he still provided an art piece because I mean, think about it, we're talking about it, you know, lots of people are talking about it.

So the museum is getting its money's worth. Plus, I think didn't they win the court case? Is there a court case? Yeah, they're not getting all of it back. They're not getting all of it. Okay. Yeah, and I understand the institution, the museum was not like a wealthy institution. It's not like Smithsonian or something like that.

I if you have an opportunity, check out [00:41:00] their website. They have some incredible pieces on display past and present. It's absolutely worth checking out their online gallery. Yeah, they're not a nice, but they're trying to, you know, do their thing.

And so giving it 84, 000 is probably a lot for them. And actually that money was sourced from a variety of different museums. So it was, it was crowdsourced. Hey, let's get all this money together so that we can crowdsource these pieces. And exactly. I mean, we're talking about it right now and it's part of his deliberate intent to make an statement, um, to challenge the traditional notions of art, the value in exchange.

So he took the money and presented blank canvases instead of the traditional artwork, so it forced them to really ask the question about what the true value of art is. I know that he also wanted to make a statement about the reduced earning power of the average, European, family, just in this global [00:42:00] economy.

Because since the 2010s right? Economic landscape has changed considerably. So to recreate it, to say, okay, well, you know what, what we have today is nothing compared to what we had Yep. 15 years ago. Alright? So that's a statement in and of itself. That's how I saw it. That's how I saw it. But I don't know, I think it would have been a louder statement if he would have incorporated some of it and rather than take the money for himself.

Then, you know, maybe donate it to, but then he couldn't title it, take the money and run banks. Yeah, it doesn't go with the, it doesn't go because Robin hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. So he took the money and ran, but he just gave it back. So, Don't give me that. Fair enough. All right. That is fair.

That's a good argument. All right. butwere the bills, the entire 84, 000 were supposed to be put onto the artwork? All of it? And he was supposed to get no money out of it? Well, no, he was, I think. I can't remember what it was, but he was commissioned to do the piece and he was provided [00:43:00] with those materials.

I don't know what the compensation was, but that's what the value of the bank notes work. Okay. So, yeah. Um, museum CEO said that it worked in its own right has been created. But he also says that wasn't the deal. No, that wasn't the deal, man. That wasn't the deal. All right. Mike Winter says, I would've painted the finger the middle.

Actually, that probably would've been a better piece of work. I know at least we would've kind of understood or rearranging. You didn't read some of the, would've been arranging the bills so that they give you that illusion of reading between the Yes. Or even $1 to like make it like campy. I don't know. I just feel like how they, I just feel like how he did it was funny.

All it's interest. It's definitely interesting and we're talking about it is this truth lies shenanigan. I dunno if she shenanigan, I think it's art piece, but I think he was, Neil was like, I don't know. I think he was [00:44:00] plotting on it. , but it is art. He, he did provide some art. Made a statement of expression. some fun topics today, guys.

Alright guys, let's get into our game. Show

 All right. Yes. All right. All right. Today's game in honor of, uh, my topic from Musk's and you're a link is monkey trivia. We're going to find out what you know about monkeys and apes and primates. I heard monkeys. All right. Real simple. We'll each get a question. You get it, right.

You get a point. First with the most points wins the game and the final thought. All right, we have a question here already showing approximately how many species of primate are there? The answer was 300 crazy. Wow. All right. 300. How many species of human? I

[00:45:00] can say at least five. No, I'm kidding. Oh, at least five species. All right. We have humans. Which one of these is not a great ape human? An orangutan a C man, CM or Bonobo? Great ape. Whoa. Robbie first. Oh, that's for me. Uh, so the Yemen is not a great ape. So you're saying the humans are a great.

Yes, yes, we are. No, we are not. Yes, we are a higher order. Why would they classify us? That's not what we are. Humans, orangutans, bonobos are all great apes along with gorillas and chimpanzees. Sea mangs are gibbons. That's fine. It's lesser apes. Yep. Maybe those Those are what they should be. Shut up, Dio. Leave the steam. Like. No. [00:46:00] No. Don't go there. I told you, not even the caterpillar. Not even the meerkat. Not even the caterpillar. All right. All right. Which island is the only place, this is for Gianni, the only place that lemurs can be found?

Lemurs are endemic to this island. This means they can be found there and nowhere else. Is it Madagascar, Mauritius, or the Maldives? I know those any of those places and I thought that was a meerkat. Um, these are lemurs are endemic to this island, Madagascar, Mauritius or Maldive. I know it because I watched the movie, the cartoon Madagascar.

Oh, there you go. Nice Gianni. Good job. Madagascar is correct. Island in the Indian ocean off the coast of Mozambique. All right. And this is for me. All right. Which is the only [00:47:00] venomous primate? Oh my God. The slow IORIS, the Galago, or the Aye Aye? Ooh. I really don't even know. Um, I'm going to go with the venomous, I'm going with the Aye Aye, because they just look venomous.

That is in Slowloris, my God. Incorrect slowloris. Slow. Iris. What? It's venomous. I knew it had to be one of those two. I I know it's not the galago. I knew them. It was 50 50. Chance. So slow. Iora secrete a toxin from a gland in the crook of their arms. Although they're known as venomous, the secretions may in fact induce an allergic reaction.

Not toxic psychosis. Uh, their bites will cause a painful swelling due to them licking this gland, but the only known human death from a slow aorist bite is attributed to anaphylactic. Oh, interesting. [00:48:00] Interesting. Jinx. We're all learning something. All right, so let's see if you both get this wrong. I'm still in the game.

So let's see. I got this, I, I know this already. Darn it. After which distinctive feature is the Viscus Monkey name, Probus, no clue. Probus Monkey is aptly named. It's a hot belly, it's a nose, or it's a long tail. It's a nose. It's a nose. Let's see. Aw. That is correct, Ravi. All right. These monkeys are named after their unusually large noses.

It is theorized that females may select males with larger noses as mate, as it increases the volume of their vocalizations, and females prefer these louder calls. Louder calls. Interesting. Okay. You're the only chance we have of keeping Rob from winning the final thought for the show again. Yes. All right.

Okay. You got to get this right. Since I missed mine. All right. [00:49:00] Tim and bonobos are closely related. And look very similar and you identify the bonobo from these 2 pictures. Yeah, of course. The 1 on the a, a, a. That is correct. Yes. That is correct. Bonobos are generally more slender than chimpanzees and have darker faces and bright pink lips.

All right. Yeah. This is just between Rabi and Gianni. All right. Let's see. I am out of it. All right, Rabi. This animal is the world's smallest primate. With an average body length of just 3. 6 inches, is it commonly known as a Philippine Tarsier, a pygmy marmoset, or Madame Birthday's mouse lemur? What? Pygmy marmoset.

I'm pretty sure that's right. That is wrong answer. Wrong answer. [00:50:00] A mouse lemur. Ever cool. It's a mouse lemur. A scientific name for the Madam Birthday's mouse lemur is... Madam Death's Mouse Lemur. Microcephalus birthday. Commonly weighs just 30 grams. All right, Gianni. Well, good luck, Gianni. This is your big chance here.

This is my time. All right. Okay. A wide, teeth bared grin is a signifier of what emotion in chimpanzees? Happiness, boredom, fear, or sadness? A wide, teeth barred grin, I think happiness. Or boredom. Oh, what is it Rob? Oh, um, happiness. I need to know. Oh! That is incorrect! Wrong. That is hard.

Same as a dog. I would have guessed happiness too. They bare their teeth just like a dog would. When a dog bares its teeth, you just kind of go, ooh, fuck off. It is fear. Be aware that the smiling chimps that you commonly see on [00:51:00] greeting cards are far from happy. And that they're often scared into making these expressions for photo shoots.

You can help these animals by not buying items showing these fearful expressions. Oh my goodness. A relaxed and happy chimpanzee will be sitting calmly with their lower lip hanging loosely. Interesting. That's horrible. That's very interesting though. We're going to do one more question and we're going to see who we're going to take all.

We're going to take all between the two of you.

Which of these. Is the only entirely carnivorous primate, the capuchin monkey, the mandrel, the tarsier or the chimpanzee? Yanna. You go, Ooh. I think it's the manl. I've remembered those on the, that movie entirely. Carnivorous. Primate. . That means all me, right? Uh, yeah. Yep. So Johnny's going with Mandrill. I'm gonna go with the tars here then.

You pick the [00:52:00] cutest monkey, watch it be the right answer to He look like a 'cause. He's just gonna eat bugs and lizards. You are correct, Robbie. You're absolutely correct. No, you're lying. . Tarsiers are the only ex extent Rob Gutter, entirely carnivorous primate being primarily insect divorce.

But. Who, but also preying on birds, snakes, lizards, and bats. Although chimpanzees are known to eat meat occasionally, including monkeys and bush pigs, they mainly eat fruits and leaves. Oh my God. Robbie, you win the

On. Monkey Phonics. Monkey Phonics. Rob, I was so confident again. We

cannot beat Robby. He's unbeatable. I'm gonna get you [00:53:00] Rob. Last, last show. Watch. All right, let's start with, let's start with Robby. Oh man, I gotta give a shout out to Mike Winter for being in the sidelines and man, making me laugh tonight. Thanks brother. Much appreciated. Forget Mike Winner, forget Mike Winner, I don't care about Mike Winner.

Alright, Gianna? Um, shout out to this one Facebook group that helped me actually learn or figure out what to do to rescue the kitten. And they were super supportive in tracking down the rescuers. So, shout out to that Facebook group in Georgia. Georgia Rescue Group. You don't know the name, that's funny.

Something like that. Georgia Rescue Group. All right, we'll find them. We'll find them somewhere. And my shout out goes to our fourth, Lizzie, who is still recovering. Hoping you continue to get better. Wishing you the best. Oh, and a happy birthday [00:54:00] again to Joseph. Happy birthday to you. Robbie Williams.

Happy birthday to you. Yeah. All right. That is officially all the time we have for today's show. I'd like to thank all of you for joining us. Hope you learned something, gained a new perspective, or simply had some laughs. I know we learned a lot about monkeys and we laughed a lot too. Look for us live again next Wednesday, 8 p.

m. Eastern time. And look for our official audio episode this Friday. Just keep in mind we have one episode left until the end of the season, but check us out. Apple podcast pods, network. com is positive Z or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Robby blows us out with another

cozy sweater on a chilly autumn day, fine comfort in the love and support of those around you. Oh, I love that. Uh, very nice [00:55:00] Robby. Thank you, Robby. Thank you, Gianni. Most importantly, we need to thank you for listening to our shenanigans each and every week. We'll see you next week for our last show of the season.

I